With all due respect to the Vice Mayor and to the great Pete Seeger, I would ask two questions-what is best for the long-term fiscal health of Alexandria and what do the majority of Alexandrians want from the waterfront. I do not see how one small hotel is a compromise over a planned three. If anything one small hotel just reinforces the elitism that most non-Old Towners feel eminates from Old Town. We all pay taxes to keep our city great, but some of us seem to benefit much more than others. The waterfront plan, as passed by the Council is a sensible forward-looking plan that makes the most of one of our greatest assets. Pete, I don't tell you what to sing, don't tell me what is best for my city.

What does Seeger think about BRAC? Any word about his opinion on food trucks or the street car? And where is Woody Guthrie when we need his opinion about the waterfront?

Actually the current plan allows TWO, not three, small hotels. As I recall, Councilwoman Pepper proposed this change in at an attempt at compromise.. It did not work because the opponents are not interested in compromise.
So reducing the number of hotels to one will get us no farther. And would condos be better than hotels? Not in my view since they would be entirely private spaces.

Who cares what Petr thinks? Has Councilwoman Silberberg reached out to Walylon Jennigs, Willie Nelson, and BB King to solicit their views? Why not? Surely she can come up with more compelling arguments than this.

don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone...

Brad, Waylon Jennings is dead. Any postcard from him should be viewed with suspicion.

This saga can't get any better. Now the old hippie folk singers have entered the fray. I'm picturing a benefit concert. This would make a great Christopher Guest movie.

Carr Properties has already proposed a hotel for the Cummings-Turner site, one of the three parcels of land to be developed under the new waterfront plan. This hotel was previewed before the Old and Historic Board of Architectural Review. No one in the Planning Department said this particular hotel was unacceptable. It is an enormous building, at a floor area ratio of 3, just as the plan permits. Unlike the recommendations in the development guidelines for planned buildings on the waterfront, it has minimal open space, not real public open space, in an interior courtyard the hotel would use for outdoor dining. It has no underground parking. Supposedly guests with cars would park in nearby garages that are already being used by others. This building alone poses a major threat to a workable waterfront plan in which citizens and visitors could move around in the area. This hotel and another like it, with a 3 FAR size, little open space and no parking of its own would be enough all by themselves to make that area of Old Town a miserable place to be.

Oh, let's just build a few more warehouses...... that should make everyone happy!

So what would the one-hotel alternative look like? Would the site of the other hotel become private space? As near as I can, tell the waterfront will be modernized no matter what (Virginia is very strong on property rights so it is tough to stop development in areas already zoned to allow it). My concern is that it not be privatized.

Elections have consequences. Luckily all voters (not just a random musician) were able to weigh in on the waterfront in the last election. In the primary they picked a slate of strong supporters of the plan with one exception. In the General they threw out the only two council members who voted against it, and they sent Andrew Macdonald (who staked a majority of his campaign on the issue) home limping.

The Waterfront debate is over, the opponents lost, let's move on.

"Where have all the warehouses gone? Long time passing." This debate has gone on way too long. Now it's simply become theater of the absurd. Can anyone explain what Pete Seeger -- great singer though he is -- has to do with Alexandria or the Waterfront? His view has as much bearing on this issue as whether Abe Vigoda supports one, two, or three hotels, or what Tom Selleck wants us to do with the old food court.

Just this ol' Democrat's view.

E. Warfield

Just when I thought Alexandria politics couldn't get any more strange..I'm not sure if this is amusing or embarrassing.

Good Point Jonathan,

Here's what is allowed by-right in the zone:
5-502

Permitted uses. The following uses are permitted in the W-1 zone:
(A) Single-family dwelling;
(A.1) Two-family dwelling;
(A.2) Townhouse dwelling;
(B) Multifamily dwelling;
(C) Business and professional office;
(D) Public building;
(E) Public park, athletic field or other outdoor recreation facility;
(F) Public utility service yard and/or electrical receiving or
transforming station, provided the use and/or structure was in
existence prior to 1982 and the use has been continued thereafter;
(G) Accessaory uses, as permitted by section 7-100.

The only change contemplated to this list is to also allow by-right:
(H) Uses smaller than 5000 square feet that foster art, history and
cultural awareness through increased understanding and
training, such as museums, schools and cultural institutions.

With a Special Use Permit the zoning allows this:

Special uses. The following uses may be allowed in the W-1 zone
pursuant to a special use permit:
(A) Commercial outdoor recreation facility;
(B) Commercial shipping and freight terminal;
(C) Facilities used for docking or berthing of boats or ships, including
public or private marinas and/or boat docks with related facilities
limited to water and electricity connections;
(D) Health and athletic club;
(E) Home for the elderly;
(F) Nursery school;
(G) Outdoor food and crafts market;
(H) Personal service establishment;
(I) Privately owned public use building such as civic auditorium or
performing arts center;
(J) Restaurant;
(K) Retail shopping establishment;
...
(N) Utilities, as permitted by section 7-1200.

The only changes proposed here are to eliminate from SUP-allowable list:
(L) Rooming house;
(M) Tourist home;

And add to SUP-allowable list:
(O) Hotel, consistent with the Development Goals and Guidelines for
Development Sites and the in the Waterfront small area plan.
(P) Uses 5000 square feet or larger that foster art, history and
cultural awareness through increased understanding and training,
such as museums, schools and cultural institutions.

SYSM: The line you are paraphrasing comes from a Joni Mitchell song, not one by Pete Seeger. I hear Angelina Jolie is going to hold a protest march about the Carevr house.

Does Mr. Seeger live here? If not, then who cares about his opinion that is solely based on an op ed written by Allison and a note to him written by Allison? Is this how she plans on spending her time helping out Alexandrians over the next 3 years?

Sincerely,
Didn't vote for her and stuff like this is why

I hope I didn't vote for her, I sure know I won't vote for her in the future.

This just in: Paul, Paul & Mary oppose the Carver Nursery Building Resolution

That would be Peter and Paul (the singers, not the saints)..... Mary is dead.

This was a bad PR move by Allison. She may not have realized it, but she was battling a "flake factor" during the primary and general elections and she hasn't done herself any favors with this stunt. I think she shows real promise on council, but this is not the way.

This thread couldn't get funnier. So embarrassing the our vice mayor wrote Pete Seegar about this.Hilarious!

Please Ms. Silberberg, Pete Seeger? Are you just showing off who you know? I recall your comments during the election process, and I went back and read your piece in the Washington Post. Your position is to express the false claims as "become like National Harbor", or "don't BRAC the waterfront, or let the development of Mirant be the revenue generator (makes me wonder if you have talked with the residents in that area about their concerns?). All of these arguments have been dismissed. I have yet to see any substantive arguments supporting your position. I came to the opinion some time ago that you might become the Council's new Andrew McDonald, "I don't have enough information", I need more time", etc.. Oh my. For the sake of the citizens of Alexandria I hope you prove this opinion wrong. So far you have just enforced it.

With the past track record of re-development successes, why don't we believe the city council knows what is best for us? Just look at the beautiful town center we have at Potomac Yard. Oops. Or how about the BRAC. Ah. How about the re-deveopment of Landmark. Um. Oh well. Hey...at least our real estate tax is low. Crap. I will just over here waiting.

It should be remembered that Allison received the highest vote count for all of City Council. The R's were replaced because for the first time the city election was held at the same time as the presidential. Three years from now, they will not be able to coat tail the President.
Vince

Someone please tell me this is a farce.

Sorry, Cathryn, this is not a farce; it is farcical, but it is real.

I am almost speechless....perhaps Ms. Silberberg can convince Mr. Seeger to purchase the Carver Nursery School Building, if he is so concerned about Alexandria's history and heritage. Ms. Silberberg's multiple references to the waterfront looking like "National Harbor" or "BRAC" are reasons why I did not....and will not....vote for her. By the way, has anyone asked Mick Jagger if he'd like to stay in a boutique hotel in Old Town?

Enough already. What we should be thinking about is that the low area, floodable, part of north and south union street should not be developed. I refer to Emily Baker's presentation. If the area from Cameron to Prince is in the low elevation, just build a floodable park. Develop both parcels at each end of the flood zone. They have enough elevation to withstand Sandy. Anything else in this particular zone is ridiculous. The area is NOT supportable by FEMA and really a disaster area. Put appropriate plantings like at Jones Point and not worry about it. Meanwhile the puddle at Starbucks is being resolved right now. A small hotel on Wolfe or Madison is fine. Let's get real, and forget the rhetoric. Actually Allison is on the right page.

Putting hotels on the waterfront is going to be a disaster. While I am all for 'modernizing' the waterfront, where are the hotel customers going to park? You can't go down so they'll either have to use on-street or off-street parking. You think parking in Old Town is bad now??

Bit late for that, Lee, we've studied this for years (and the plan is now officially just over 14 months old (I think)). Yes, parking is congested in Old Town but that's what you have when you create a desirable place to live, work, visit, eat and drink, and as you noted you can't do too much to it. This is why we have other modes of transit around town, and I'd be willing to bet many hotel visitors use them: cab, hotel shuttle, etc. But to confirm my hunch, and in the spirit of this thread, I'll channel the spirit of Elvis to get his opinion on traffic and parking caused by the waterfront plan.

Wait a second.....the Vice Mayor feels this opinion is worth "news" because Seeger is a musician? This is exactly why our city is crumbling to the ground.

Lets put down our electronic spears and assess what is really going on here (since the dart throwers in this thread seem to be asleep at the wheel on the mother of all issues). Property owners for and against the waterfront plan and certain candidates - you are on notice that your rights are under attack by the current regime. The city is seeking to all but eliminate the right of nearby property owners to protest a major rezoning initiative in their neighborhood. Before throwing more darts, I would encourage you to research the issue before commenting. Check out www.whatsreallynew.com and let's have a civil conversation about the pros and cons...

Www.whatsreallynext.com is the correct link. My apologies..

Sorry Old Pete & Allison, but anyone who's actually seen our waterfront knows it's not beautiful - more of a disgrace. But nice plug for the book. Congratulations.

I am pretty sure a 93 year old folk singer as a firm grasp on the complexities of this issue to weigh in.

We voted our leaders into office. In a Democracy, the majority wins! Thankfully, Alexandria is made up of a lot of LIBERALS.......

FWIW, I do think Pete Seger deserves respect for his long history as a labor and civil rights activist--he isn't just a musician. As for the implication from some quarters that liberals are cognitively disabled (I won't use the r-word, which is just plain offensive), all I can say is that it is doubly insulting to tell people that an obvious insult is somehow not really an insult.

I've already put in my 2 cents on this debate (see above), but I did want to add that I hope we can redouble our efforts to be civil and respectful here.

You're very welcome.

Wouldn't The Soggy Bottom Boys provide better insight for any waterfront plan?

@ Doug Redman: Yes, of course they could! Isn't freedom wonderful!?

I need help picking out some new window treatment, does anybody have the phone number for Cat Stevens? I'd like his opinion before I make any decisions.

Cat Stevens isn't "Cat Stevens" anymore. He's gone by the name Yusuf Islam for many years now. In any event, if I recall correctly, a member of Fleetwood Mac had a restaurant/nightclub here in Alexandria about ten years ago. Maybe he should weigh in, having been a small business owner near the waterfront and all.

Pete Seeger? Really? Wow, just how much weirder can Alexandria become?