Not there! There are so many other vacant locations on the Avenue - vacant for years. Please keep the shopping & eating *off* our residential streets.

The proposed restaurant does not enhance the residential nature of the 500 block in particular, nor the blocks around it, as people traverse thru them to get to the joint. E Howell is a family-friendly, narrow street. A take-out restaurant operating every single day of the week, 15 hours each day does *not* make a good neighbor. The place is located *very* close to the first duplex on the block.

Problems: Smells, trash (sure they can try to keep it in the bins, but we've all seen how effective that is - and customers walking back with their loot may drop one or two napkins, buns, BONES for the 25+ dogs on E Howell to find & choke on later), vermin, noise (people, delivery trucks & music), car accidents (tight intersection; dozens of mirrors have been clipped off already - without offenders taking responsibility), even more light pollution, & loitering among our homes.

And the name? offends me no end.... making light of an animal at the time of it's slaughter.... howling? get PETA on the line!.... It highlights the owners' complete disregard of the neighbors through that insensitive choice of a moniker.

BBQ is good. More BBQ is better! I agree that the name isn't a good idea, and I understand the "not in my backyard" mindset. But I hope they find a way to go forward with the concept.

I don't mind yet another restaurant - just place it where homeowners don't have to be subjected to its spillover - good concept; bad location. Has Marino's Pizza brought up the value of the properties behind it? Maybe not a fair comp, but a BBQ joint is not about to help out this already-too-busy intersection. A real estate office, a 9-5 biz, even another spa with a few clients per hour might better fit in with the block.

Bet it's up and running before Pork Barrel BBQ.

Not all residents of Howell are against this proposal. Two points though that are not clear in this article:
1. Both lots (and the building) are already zoned commercial and have been for years.
2. We are talking about the very end of Howell - along Route 1. The address may be Howell but the property runs along Route 1.

I am in support of this proposal as long as the basic considerations are made to respect the immediate area and residents (e.g. curb appeal, entrance/exit planning, sanitation etc). I really don't know what this neighborhood has against BBQ. First we have frivolous litigation against pork barrel and now we are fighting against a small take-out eatery in a commercially zoned space along Route 1. HUH? Disgusting waste of resources in my opinion.

I think it could be a great example of innovative adaptive re-use of an eye-sore property on Rt. 1. Maybe they could change it to Howell'n Good BBQ and use a wolf image....oh well, it's always something..

Madison and Martha -- great points! let's not forget that this is an abandonded lot on route 1, not some bucolic meadow in the country. what these local chefs and business owners are proposing is great, perhaps the trend will take hold and more of route 1 businesses and abandonded lots/store fronts will take note.

Good points KH, let's hope more progress continues along this corridor.

Good grief - pretty much every lot on Route 1 intersects with a residential cross street. How is this one somehow different than the others? If you don't like the name, or if the food isn't good, DON'T EAT THERE. In any event it'll be a huge improvement over the eyesore the lots currently are.

Here we go again. Residents must understand, they live by places that are zoned commercial, which means commercial will eventually be there, truck, trash, people, etc. This lot has been vacant for atleast 20 years, you have become accustomed to having it like that, that does not mean it needs to stay like that. This is at the end of Howell, it will have some parking, most clients will come from Rt 1, buy their food and leave, not necessarily go up Howell into Del Ray, but get back on Rt 1 and continue on. Its a great idea and it will remain a small business, not expand to take over the block. Howelling Pig, what's the matter with that, for the rest of us, it indicates bar-b-que, not lets go kill us a pig, its incorporating the name of the street.

Neighbors need to lighten up and realize that WE live in the city of alexandria
progress means that abandonded buildings will eventually become occupied
the current site is an eye-sore, and by the way, don't you think vermin already live there? The location is actually on route one, not some residential lane in a surban cul-de-sac. Howell'n Pig way to go...

It never ceases to amaze me when people who live in a city decide they really live in the country. A fun restaurant that has a creative name, affordable food AND develops in a place where there's been an eye-sore of a building for years should be welcomed. PETA? Get a grip! What about "Bonefish" and countless other restaurants that include the name of something we eat (wait...isn't that why we have restaurants??)

I love everything that is awesome about Del Ray.... just as long as all of that awesome is someplace else, clogging up someone else's tiny street... but still within walking distance, mind you! Anything near me must have an unsustainable business model and therefore, no customers that I have to see or hear (don't forget their music.)

And an offensive name....

They should change the name to "Howellin' Makin' Bacon." I don't see that anyone could object because it is a happy time in a pig's life, a VERY happy time!

Denise, as someone who was part of the Pork Barrel BBQ discussion since it is literally my next door neighbor, I would encourage you to focus on the issues that really will impact you. If I learned anything from the Pork Barrel experience it is that you have to have open communication with the business owners ASAP. Not with everyone on the list serve or the Del Ray patch, but with the people who really have to make it work in the end. That did not happen with us- the neighbors were the last to know, and we spent too long catching up and honestly freaking out on some issues when it wasn't honestly necessary. Invite Eric to meet with you and know what your top issues are (you listed a lot of concerns). For us it was closing at 2am daily and not having a more sophisticated venting system for the odors of BBQ and high wok asian cooking. You don't know if traffic will increase- and if it does realistically you will have to work with the city. My neighbors and I call the non-emergency police number weekly because driveways are blocked or access to Oxford is blocked because of multiple delivery trucks and that is BEFORE Pork Barrel even opens. The businesses are working with us to solve the problem and that is the only way to address it. It is easier to create a more collaborative relationship sooner than later.... I would also encourage you to work with the Land Use Committee (hopefully you are a member of DRCA!) and know who is working on the application at the City.

Not sure how that name is offensive unless you're a pig. I on Bellefonte about 150 feet away from the site. I understand not wanting to live next door, but it won't bother me. If they keep it VERY clean, I suspect they'll have no issues. If they do a good job educating their customers about keeping litter where it belongs and being respectful, I expect they'll be a welcome addition. It's easy to talk about how people should lighten up when they aren't the ones living next door. Personally it wouldn't bother me, but I'm a 1/2 block away, maybe I'd feel differently if I lived literally next door or 2-3 houses away. Careful what you wish for you may get it. Some idiot neighbor off Mt. Vernon decided to fight the pizza place next to 7-11 and they gave up. Instead they got a Tarot Card reading place

Drew, you say a special use permit application was filed. What does that mean?
Why do they need a permit? What's 'special' about this type of commercial enterprise?

Before we all get caught in a debate about the pros and cons of a bbq joint and commercial property rights, let's look at what is really going to happen here. Take a good look at the east side of Rt 1. What do you see? You see great empty spaces that will soon be covered with seriously dense development. What do you get with all of that building going on? You get hundreds and hundreds of constructions workers. Guess where the closest place for them to grab a bite to eat will be? Yes indeed, 521 East Howell. Folks, there is a reason they want this place to open at 7 am. From 7 am till around 4 pm, this is going to be Del Ray's own little Weenie Beanie. Forget turning out of or into East Howell from Rt. 1 - it won't be cars you are fighting, it will be trying not to hit construction workers as they cross Rt 1 during the 90 seconds or so East Howell has a green light. Construction workers will be over there for a long, long time and this is were the part time bbq joint is going to rake in the money. This is no neighborhood enhancement.

Trey, you're a genius. God knows, we wouldn't want non-yuppy types in the 'hood.

I have lived in this neighborhood since the days when yuppies turned up their noses at Del Ray. When we moved here it was a mostly working class neighborhood so don't try that on me. Since most of you seem to have been asleep at the swithch, you should know that Council, in its wisdom, moved all of the through traffic from Monroe Avenue to East Howell and East Custis. We are going to have 1800 cars an hour going down our little 22 foot wide street. I have already lost 7 side view mirrors (not one person stopped to give insurance information). This is the oldest part of Del Ray and we are being smothered by traffic. It isn't a restaurant or its clientele that is the issue here, it is locating a heavy traffic, in and out restaurant on to a street that can't handle what it has. I guess having 1800 cars an hour zooming by your house wouldn't bother you. How many times have you voted for candidates for Council who have sworn to protect residential neighborhoods from the impact of development. I am neither shocked or surprised by the owners' desire to make money. After all what is the point of business unless you do, just don't destroy the environment of a neighborhood in the process.

Just to clarify the location of the property: the small lot with the pump house and the larger walled lot adjacent to it both face only onto Howell. The land between the pump house lot and Route 1 is some combination of city/state. Thus unless special arrangements are made, access to any parking lot will be from Howell Ave.

How can a facility built for moving raw sewage be converted to a commercial kitchen? Sounds like a setup for a disaster movie (e,g, Andromeda Strain or Omega Man).

You Nimbys might want to think about the unintended consequences of your actions. The local, small operators that you get off on harassing may ultimately give up for lack of resources. And others like them may see what happens and stay away. But demand will ultimately be met by supply, and there are national entities that would love to step into that void, and they have the resources and political clout to make it happen.

If/when that happens, you really will "deserve a break" that day.

We are all neighbors in Del Ray. I sense people are just enjoying attacking anyone who disagrees with these restauranteurs' proposal. Most comments are not making a case *for* the restaurant, just voicing disagreement with someone voicing disagreement. (And, some I know, are Arlington residents; what is their ultimate motive?)

Any of these businesses below, could fit in better than a busy take-out restaurant, on a residential street. These are "low impact" on the surrounding neighbors. Several are appointment-style operations, which would minimize traffic impact, and could have more biz-like hours:
* Tax prep
* Accountant
* Psychologist
* Career counselor/Coach
* Professional Organizer
* Antique furniture restoration
* Frame shop
* Quilt Shop/sewing center
* Tutor
* Private Language Instructors (or small group instruction)
* Paint Contractor
* Dog Walking service - where the walkers would go & check in for keys, etc.
* Dog Something.... treat store? dog clothing store? something compatible with the place across the street
* Tattoo & Piercings shop
* Palmist/Psychic
* Architect
* Wedding Planner
* Photographer
* Interior Designer
* Computer Repair shop
* Political campaign HQ

Are you serious? Didn't realize we needed to make a case for the restaurant. Seems like the fact that the owners are willing to put up their money, time and patience makes the case, no?

But since we're playing this game, please share with us your "case" for the Tattoo shop, Psychic and Quilt Shop, for starters. I think I speak for most people when I say that "Not much traffic" is not a sufficient answer.

Does anyone here realize that different hoods have different zones? If, as someone stated previously, the address in question is "Commercial Low," there is actually a legal definition of it. Has anyone spewing forth opinions here in any direction even read the law? I know the answer to that one. No. The more directly affected someone is by a proposed change, the more seriously he or she is going to take the matter. That is how it should be. Who knows how close or far away the rest of the snide commentators live. It takes more time to research the law and consider consequences than it does to make a snide comment in the blogosphere. Imagine looking up the law to see if the contemplated business fits into the zone in which it must, asking questions and doing research, and voicing concerns. That's for squares!

Commercial Low is defined in the Alexandria City Code:
4-101 - Purpose.

The CL zone is intended to provide for small scale retail and service uses offering pedestrian oriented shopping and services for individual consumers and households located primarily in nearby residential areas. Proximity to residences requires that commercial operations be conducted at a scale and intensity commensurate with nearby residential development, be developed and designed so as to be in character with such development and be of such characteristics as not to be detrimental or a nuisance to nearby residential properties.

Why not start there?

From checking the map of zones, it appears this property is actually "Commercial Service Low," not "Commercial Low." maybe I read the map incorrectly, so feel free to research on your own, as anyone with the littlest bit of skin in the game and willingness to mouth off, on either side, would hopefully do.

Alexandria City Zoning Ordinance:
"The CSL zone is intended to provide for light service and industrial uses compatible in operations and character with nearby residential neighborhoods and properties. Proximity to residences requires that commercial operations be conducted at a scale and intensity commensurate with nearby residential development, be developed so as to be in character with such development and be of such characteristics and effect so as not to be detrimental or a nuisance to nearby residential properties."

The 1800 cars an hour did not come out of my kitchen sink and the implication that I made up the number adds yet another unnecessarily insulting tone to what some of us had hoped was to be a civil discourse. The 1800 cars an hour comes directly from a traffic consultant's report to the City which factored in current traffic and projected traffic from Potomac Yard. I sat in Rich Baier's office with the City traffic guy and discussed this. FYI, the 1800 cars per hour is now probably too low as Council increased the density of the land bays across from Del Ray. Differences of opinion are healthy but, in lieu of snide remarks, could we please have the same quality of research and information from the "pro" side that our side is offering? One final thought - just as people buy property abutting commercial property should expect some issues, people who buy commercial property abutting residential property should expect some issues. Quid pro quo. Why should residential owners be the ones bearing all of the onus or, for that matter, all of the insults? Those of you who support the restaurant are, by your behavior, making it that much more difficult for the owners and the neighborhood to begin a dialogue.

Hi all, I'm the owner of the Dog Daycare on the corner. May I make the point that this is a restaurant in name only. It is in fact a carry-out.

As to the development of the lots along Route 1 that abut the residential community; I don't see why we desperately need to get these properties recycled into more intensive uses. Yes, if you want to put more money into the hand of the small group of speculators who bought the properties recently, that is what you should do. Check out what they bought them for and then find out what the current asking price. What discourages development is that speculators hold out for the community to make substantial concessions. Why develop a low use when you can wring a high use out of the locals by threatening to never develop it.

It seems to me that the question when evaluating a Special Use Permit is what special value does the propsed use bring.to the community.

The problem is that the speculators bought a pig of a piece of real estate and are figuring out what to do to cover their cash flow until they either get the rest of that block or sell it to a builder.

What value does this use bring to the immediate neighbors? it is hard to see how this is good for anyone who lives on Howell.

Mind you, it will improve the value of my building and my daycare so it's win-win for me.

all the best

Paul Haire

I read the traffic report. I saw the numbers. I showed the report to a large number of other people. Please cease implying that I am creating this out of whole cloth. Just because you personally do not believe such figures could be accurate does not make them false. This is my final comment on the issue.

I will break my promise about the last entry being my last to comment that I saw how both the consultant and the City staff computed the numbers. There is absolutely no doubt that this forecast is accurate. What is staggering is that both City staff and Council truly BELIEVE that East Howell will have no trouble handling 1800 cars an hour. I thought that would stop the whole idea dead in its tracks but Council, with the exception of Andrew MacDonald, passed it 6-1 without batting an eye. As to why they believe that Howell has this capacity, I will not comment. As for your question about additional cars, et al. I suggest you read previous postings..

Here are the actual numbers.
Potomac Yards Multimodal Transportation Study dated December 2009
http://bit.ly/oB3UFU

Sorry Trey, wrong report.

Look. Heres what I think! I hope that one day with all the obvious time and energy that you all have on your hands that you will do something that actually makes a difference! like feeding the homeless or helping a child in need. All your sinceless nonsince that you are going back and forth about doesn't help anybody including your street or your community! All it does is cost us taxpayers money allowing the city consel that talk about your crappy concerns for hours then making the same decision they would have if you didn't just waste hours if your lives and theirs! let people invest their money, work hard and improve our community! Stop bitching!!.....and eat some bbq!! Because its coming whether you like it or not!!

Sorry for the gramer and speliing mistskes! IM not an idiot, just got a new phone :)

I live just a couple blocks up the road from this site - and I'd happily welcome this addition to our neighborhood. Yes, there are traffic problems of both delivery vehicles and volume that need to be looked after, and nobody wants an eyesore or trash problem - but those are all things that can be worked out.

Can we get something besides BBQ and Pizza in Del Ray?

On a completely different note, I would like to see more healthy eating spots. Sushi? Salads and vegetarian options? We sure have a lot of pizza, and now a lot of BBQ...

Happy Day. I can't wait!